A Devastating Alternate Second World War

February 18, 2007

Shattered World - Segment 52.2.1(Revised)

May 1st 1949

In the waters between Spain and the Canary Islands, operation Felix is launched by Germany and Italy. On the Canary Islands themselves, three submarine-delivered Italian commando teams come ashore in the black pre-dawn hours. These teams, veterans with experience in operations across the Mediterranean, are tasked with disabling the three main British radar stations keeping watch over the northern approaches to the islands. Two of the teams succeed in their mission but the third, spotted by a British patrol squad, is surrounded and wiped out. A similar operation on Madeira falters when the Italian commandoes experience equipment failures and are forced to call off their action.

Meanwhile - a large 225 plane German raiding force of Ju-588's, older Ural bombers, and Fw-360g escort fighters is spotted by Free French radar outposts. On the Canary Islands and Madeira British forces, already on alert because of the Italian commando raids and now informed of the incoming Axis bomber force by sources inside Free France, now leap into action. British jet fighters take to the skies from Madeira and the Canaries and, vectored by Madeira air control and the surviving radar station in the Canaries, tear into the Axis raiding force well out to sea.

The German fighter escorts battle valiantly and aggressively but the British jet fighters are faster, more maneuverable, and are more free to burn fuel. 5 British jet fighters are downed versus 28 of the German escort fighters - nearly half of the entire German fighter escort force is lost. But the heavy sacrifice of the escorts allows most of the German bombers to slip through and they hammer the primary British air fields and naval facilities on the Canary Islands and Madeira with a mix of conventional and nerve gas bombs. British losses on the ground to personnel, equipment, and buildings are heavy and their remaining functional radar stations on the Canaries and Madeira are destroyed or damaged. British fighters exact a large measure of revenge by downing nearly thirty German heavy bombers as they make their way north back towards Spain.

To the North - the Italian Atlantic surface task force, with its two modern battlecruisers and several destroyers, steams out of the port of Cadiz and steers a course due south. At the same time Italian troop transports, crammed with some 20,000 experienced German and Italian marines and soldiers, surge through the straights of Gibraltar with numerous destroyers, two cruisers, and a battleship in escort. The Italian Navy has sortied for battle. The Royal Navy, still processing the extent of what has happened on the Canary Islands and Madeira, sends out orders for two powerful naval task forces to converge on the waters off Northwest Africa.
The Battle of the Canary Islands is underway.

May 2nd 1949

After a lull in Rommel's counter-thrust, both sides have slowed operations for several days as units and logistical lines realign themselves. Now, sensing weakness in the British, Rommel resumes his attack. Just as the Axis thrust is beginning to advance again the Royal Air Force uses its second atomic bomb. The 38 kiloton British device is detonated above what, by all appearances, is a German panzer division advancing across the desert. Confident that the atomic bomb has destroyed Rommel's main panzer column, and perhaps killed the Desert Viper himself, British armor plunges ahead in the shadow of the Mushroom cloud and meets very little resistance...until German panzers and mechanized forces plunge into their exposed flank.
In a disastrous failure of intelligence for the British, the atomic bomb was actually dropped on a supply column of Italian trucks and armored cars. Axis deception efforts, including heavy use of smoke and dust to obscure their true movements, have proven either successful or very lucky.The real German panzer division, six kilometers away from the atomic blast, is largely unaffected aside from the loss of some men to flash blinding. Rommel, getting reports of British armored forces pushing through ground zero, soon realizes the gift he has been handed and orders a sharp counter-attack.

May 3rd 1949

With British air operations on the Canary Islands and Madeira now curtailed by the damage to their air fields, a second German raid, this time conducted during the day, now pummels the islands. The British jet fighters again fight brilliantly, but there are less of them in the air this time and British radar coverage in the theatre has been significantly reduced. 6 of the British jets are downed for the loss of 13 German escort fighters and German heavy bombers pound British supply depots, air fields, barracks, and defensive positions around the islands.
In the waters north of the islands the two Italian naval forces have now combined into a single fleet. Late in the afternoon British torpedo and dive bombers, launched from two carriers nearly two hundred miles to the west, attack the Italian naval force approaching the Canaries. The older of the two Italian cruisers, two destroyers, and a supply vessel are sunk. Other ships, including one of the battlecruisers and the battleship, suffer varying degrees of damage.
While the British carrier aircraft are savaging the Italian naval force German maritime aircraft attack the two British carriers northwest of the Canaries. As long range German escorts clash with the British carrier fighters, 24 Sea Dragon maritime attack aircraft launch a total of 48 anti-shipping rockets. 12 of the complex weapons fail outright for one reason or another, tumbling harmlessly into the sea. Of the 36 remaining rockets, well over half simply miss their target due to technical problems or operator error. Three more are shot down by the hail of anti-aircraft fire that fills the air around the carriers like a fog of lead.
Four of the rockets strike the Aircraft Carrier Hermes and five rockets strike the carrier Bulwark. On the Hermes one of the rockets ignites fires and explosions which sink the carrier several hours later. The Bulwark is moderately damaged and is able to recover its aircraft, and some from the Hermes, while steaming west to safety. Most of the aircraft from the Hermes are forced to land on the damaged airfields of the Canaries and Madeira.
With the loss of one vital carrier and the other damaged, the Royal Navy's nearest combat capable aircraft carrier is now a week away from the Canary Islands. The Axis have succeeded in gaining a valuable, if short, window of time in which they control the waters between Spain and the Canary Islands.

May 4th 1949

After several hours of naval bombardment, Italian and German marines come ashore near the primary towns of the Canary Islands, Santa Cruz de Tenerife and LasPalmasde Gran Canaria
. British forces, well entrenched on both of the primary islands of the chain and determined to hold the Canaries after the humiliating losses of Malta and Gibraltar, launch fierce counter attacks into the Axis beachheads which succeed in splitting Axis forces near Santa Cruz de Tenerife and nearly repelling the Axis beachhead near Las Palmas de Gran Canaria. Late in the afternoon a British submarine torpedoes and sinks two Italian destroyers, then succeeds in slipping away unharmed. Nearly half of the Italian naval force in the Atlantic has now been sunk.
Meanwhile, in North Africa the British are in shock after the sharp German counter-attack following the botched tactical atomic bombing. British forces on the Libyan front are now reeling in full retreat. Rommel's thrust has succeeded in seriously threatening the British southern flank on a strategic scale, forcing the shell shocked British command to order a general withdrawal. However, a frustrated Rommel knows he lacks the depth of forces and logistics to encircle and destroy the British. In addition, the 35,000 British and Imperial POW's being transported west are helping to clog Axis supply lines. Instead of racing east the Axis forces march methodically back into Surt and maintain a steady advance, fighting through numerous British delaying actions.

May 5th 1949

Desperate to secure the Canary Islands before the Royal Navy can return in force to the theatre, Axis forces press their invasion vigorously. In the morning close-in bombardments by Italy's remaining naval force and carpet bombing by close to one hundred German heavy bombers allows Axis marines to join hands and form a single unified beachhead near
Santa Cruz de Tenerife once again. However, British defenses remain in tact and the other Axis beachhead near LasPalmas de Gran Canaria is in danger of being pushed right into the ocean.

May 6th 1949

With British air power on the Canaries and Madeira now largely suppressed - Axis forces launch the second phase of operation Felix as some 4,000 German and Italian paratroopers land right on top of the airfield on Madeira following an intense conventional bombing of nearby British barracks and the town of Funchal
. Despite heavy losses to anti-aircraft fire the Axis paratroopers quickly seize the airbase intact and establish a strong perimeter extending some distance around the airfield. By late in the afternoon on May 7th German transport planes are landing on the degraded but hastily repaired runway - crammed full of additional paratroopers, supplies, equipment, light vehicles, and artillery. Multiple desperate but poorly coordinated British assaults on the airfield have been repelled by the Axis paratroopers.

On the other side of the world Japan continues its great suffering. U.S. B-34 bombers drop 40 kiloton atomic bombs on
Kobe and Kure. Hundreds of thousands more Japanese civilians are dead or soon will be, two more great cities are roiling storms of flame. At Kure the second largest Japanese naval base is wiped out by a third atomic bomb along with several warships and numerous merchant ships docked there. In a fit of rage the Japanese military regime broadcasts threats to "exterminate" the western populations of Singapore and Hong Kong if atomic attacks on its cities continue. Other than retaliating against westerners under its control, there is little the Japanese can do to stop the B-34's. Several desperate Japanese projects to create weapons capable of intercepting a B-34 have yet to reach even the prototype stage.

May 8th 1949

Axis marines, supported by the heavy guns of the Italian fleet, have succeeded in carving out a larger beachhead near
Santa Cruz de Tenerife at a high cost in blood. However, on Gran Canaria the Axis have been forced to evacuate in the face of aggressive British counter-attacks. Axis casualties have been extremely heavy on both islands.

May 9th 1949

Axis paratroopers on Madeira, now numbering close to 7000, are driving out of their pocket at the airfield while Axis engineers continue to hastily repair the facilities there. British forces bend in the face of the paratrooper assault but do not, quite, break. "Hold on until the squids arrive!" has become the rallying cry of British forces on
Madeira. A race is now on as two Royal Navy carriers steam south towards Madeira from the British Isles while more Axis reinforcements arrive via air transport into the captured air field.

May 12th 1949

North of the Canary Islands German and Italian fighters operating out of the captured airbase on Madeira clash with British carrier jet fighters in a desperate struggle for control of the skies over that island. The Royal Navy has returned to the theatre and is determined to hold the Axis out of the South Atlantic. Unlike the first air battles over the Canaries, the Germans now have some of their own jet fighters - evening the odds greatly. The day's clashes end in a tactical draw with both sides losing a dozen or so fighters. The British carrier raiding force does not succeed in sinking any Italian ships, instead moderately damaging a destroyer and a troop transport.

May 14th 1949

The Battle of the Canary Islands rages on. Operating with a cover of carrier fighters overhead some 5,000 Royal Marines come ashore on Madeira to reinforce the faltering defenses there. The day is marked by more fierce clashes in the air with the losses being relatively even once again.
In Libya, after a week of retreat, the British have decided to dig into lines of defense south and southeast of Benghazi - the same defensive lines used by the Axis not so long ago. Axis forces, now operating on an ever extending supply line and lacking sufficient mobile forces to overwhelm the still numerically superior British, are forced to stop and dig in themselves. In Libya, the lines once again settle into a stalemated front. Britain's North African army, still larger than the Axis army in total numbers of men, has taken severe losses to its mobile strength. The three British armored divisions that started off so confidently in the British offensive on Surt have been reduced to shadows of their peak strength and the British command is already in the process of consolidating the surviving armor into two reduced divisions.

May 15th 1949

German submarines ambush a British supply convoy that had been attempting to infiltrate supplies to the island of Madeira. Four transports and a British destroyer are sunk, along with many tons of valuable supplies. The Kriegsmarine has now surged nearly half its entire Atlantic submarine force into the waters around the Canary Islands and Madeira in an effort to completely blockade them.

On the eastern side of the Caspian Sea German heavy bombers heavily damage the major Soviet oil refinery at
Krasnovodsk despite fierce resistance by Red Airforce interceptors and anti-aircraft defenses. The attack is only the latest of a recent series of relatively successful raids on Soviet oil infrastructure in the region. The Luftwaffe intends to aid the coming summer campaign by reducing Soviet oil supplies and thus limiting the Red Army's mobility.

May 15th 1949

After more heavy conventional and nerve gas bombardment by the Luftwaffe, as well as heavy off shore bombardment - Axis marines manage to drive most remaining British forces on Santa Cruz de Tenerife into a narrow pocket on the coast. With the Axis now holding a commanding advantage the British position on the island of Santa Cruz de Tenerife seems untenable.

May 16th 1949

In a brilliantly executed Royal Navy operation the 6,000 remaining British marines on Santa Cruz de Tenerife are evacuated by sea to the island of Gran Canaria under cover of carrier aircraft. However, the island of Santa Cruz de Tenerife and several of the lesser islands of the chain are now in Axis hands. The balance of air power over the islands is now in favor of the Axis as 'Sea Dragons' and all kinds of Axis fighters and bombers can now operate from the captured islands in addition to the airfield on Madeira.
The Royal Navy, however, is not ready to give up. A third carrier has now joined the growing task force which is operating out of the Cape Verde islands and Britain's west African territories. In addition Gran Canaria and a few of the lesser islands remain in the hands of some 15,000 British Marines and Madeira remains hotly contested.
On top of all that - British Engineers, under cover of Royal Navy air power, are now rapidly repairing the air facilities on Gran Canaria.

May 17th 1949

With the British back on the defense in Libya, Italy controlling the western and central Mediterranean, and the Axis now firmly established in the Canary Islands - the United States and Brazil jointly declare war on the Axis Powers. Dewey, in a dramatic speech before a joint session of Congress, blasts the Axis Powers, saying "...this fascist grab for a foothold in the South Atlantic represents a threat to the western hemisphere that the American people can no longer ignore. This dire situation, in combination with the intensification of the outrageous and illegal assaults upon our civilian shipping in the North and South Atlantic, have given me no choice but to ask Congress to confirm that a state of war now exists between the United States of America and the Axis nations of Germany and Italy, and I have been assured that our Brazilian friend and ally shall do the same...."

Germany and Italy, well aware that this was coming, declare war in turn - seeing it as inevitable. Hitler and Mussolini never believed that the U.S. would allow the British to be defeated without joining the war on their side. Hitler, surrounded by aides and top figures within the German high command, privately celebrates the American declaration of war, claiming it "shows the British are now desperate".

May 18th 1949

Off the east coast of the United States a massive armada is steaming due southeast. The force, composed of some 6 fleet aircraft carriers and an immensely powerful surface element, had been assembling in anticipation of the declaration of war. U.S. and British naval planners have been putting together an operational plan for the past two weeks. If they pull it off, it will be the largest coordinated naval operation yet seen.

Meanwhile, at a U.S. airfield on Puerto Rico, a dozen massive bombers and numerous heavy transports have arrived over the past few days. Signs bearing the letters "SBC" have suddenly appeared all over the bustling air field, as have grim looking MP's with hard faces and sub-machine guns.

To be Continued in Segment 52.3


Anonymous said...


One minor nit, wouldn't Dewey have made his speech before a joint session of Congress?

- CJ

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

Good point, I'll change that.

Syphon said...

Nice Bobby,

The US has made a serious mistake.

They have cast aside all pretence of neutrality by a joint planing of entry of the war in direct contrvention of the hague treaty.

I wonder how this will go down in congress when it is revealed and it would be that the US were the "agressors" when they don't quite win the war.

Dewry I believe is politically doomed. No aircraft carriers will be named after him. Only sucessful presidents get them, that why Carter only got a u-boat.

And talking of u-boats they have been very very quite so far. I wonder where the rest of them are?
Prepareing for a major strike on a US fleet some where?

Anonymous said...

Now this going to be interesseting.
I quite liked this part, and hope to see more soon.


olefin said...

Bobby the longest runway on the BVI is 4642 feet long - the B-36A with props needs 6000 feet to take off at sea level. Even the B-36D with jets needed 4400 feet - which is less than a 5 percent safety factor. There is no way the US would risk atomic bomb armed bombers on such a runway.

olefin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
olefin said...

Bobby just a few comments:

1) Where is the other Italian BCR? And why did the Italians only send one CA/CL with such a big fleet - there should be at least a couple of their AA CL along for the ride and most likely at least one BB for naval gunfire support.

2) What about the Madeiras - they were taken over by the British earlier in the war - and they would be right on the path for any resupply missions to the Caneries - if they were still in British hands then the whole Canary Island operation basically puts those men in a noose from day one. Were those islands taken out using massive air strikes to basically destroy the airfields and naval forces based there? If not the whole of Operation Felix makes no sense - after all those ships have to get back - and if the Madeiras are intact then they are dead meat.

3) What happened to the British forces that were cutoff early in Rommel's attack? Were they lost or did they breakout again? If they were lost how many were there? And how big was the hit to the British African army? From the description it sounds like the best part of three armored divisons were either destroyed or very heavily damaged.

4) If Brazil declared war on the Axis what about the SAFB?

olefin said...

What was the vote in Congress by the way? Was it an overwhelming yes as it was for Pearl Harbor? Or was it a majority vote with a lot of no's? Its one thing to go to war with 10 people saying no. Its another to have it pass 60/40 or 55/45 yes.

Brian said...

Always an entertaining and thought-provoking read!

Nice job.

Anonymous said...

Looks like you are trying very hard to make Nazi Germany to survive...

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

Wait until you see the next segment and the Axis position in the Canaries ....lets just say worsens considerably.

My goal is to have a world war that plays out in an interesting manner, I'm not intentionally steering the time line for one side to win or the other.

Anonymous said...

Olefin here

Bobby is not trying hard to make Nazi Germany survive - he is posting a story where both sides take losses and victories - and where both sides at times seem on the verge of victory or defeat

That is why the story has survived as long as it has - because its twists and turns are hard to predict.

By the way - if you are a Shattered World poster and you dont have a Google/Blogger ID - like me - then please do like CJ and I did - and put your shatteredworld discussion board member ID here if you have one

Anonymous said...

By the way guys - anyone ever heard of the Cumbre Vieja volcano on La Palma - which the Germans are now occupying? And that a nuke there would most likely cause a monster tsunami that would devastate the entire US Eastern Seaboard from the Caribbean all the way to Virginia?

And that no one in the 40's knew that the volcano was as unstable as we now know it is today?

Food for thought for anyone who thinks of nuking the Germans off those islands.

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

Well, I doubt a 40 kiloton atomic bomb would be enough the set off the land slide you are referring to.

Anonymous said...

Olefin here:

Bobby a 40kt atomic bomb would be more than enough to set off an unstable volcano like that - so if you are thinking of nuking that island I would change your story - not unless the next chapter deals with the destruction by tidal wave of the US Eastern Seaboard from Miami to Baltimore.

Anonymous said...

Olefin again:

Just to clarify a point Bobby - no one is saying the whole of the Canaries is unstable and that nuking any island would cause that. However nuking that particular island would be very very bad news for the US if it sets off that volcano and causes a monstrous landslide and tsunami.

Somehow I dont think the US could recover in time from a disaster like that before the Germans get a bunch of nukes in their arsenal.

Anonymous said...

Back a while ago SAFB was denied membership into the Axis. Don't tell me no one thought to ask again. Germany would probably be desperate for another ally anyway, so they would most probably say yes this time.

CJ said...

Oh give it up on the mega-tsunami. That is a theory and there are plenty of people who have a different view. If Bobby wants to drop a nuke on La Palma he is free to do so and I think the vast majority of us will be just fine with no mega-tsunami resulting.

CJ said...

About the SAFB joining the Axis. I think a better question is does the SAFB want to be at war with the United States?

Golladay said...

CJ that Tsunami like global warming is established scientific fact. Considering a small one kiloton nuke caused a 5 Ritcher quake, a 40 kiloton would make it a lot worse if it hits the fault line. The volcano is due to explode in a week, the pummeling from bombers and ships has prevented people from noticing the warning signs. Dropping the nuke would would send the shelf into the sea. Even if La Palma is not bombed, the eruption of La Palma's Cumbre Vieja would shut down air flights in the area for a week or more, giving the Germans a chance to recover.

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

I could see a 40 kiloton nuke setting off that landslide _if_ the nuke were placed at just the right location designed to trigger the slide.
However, keep in mind this is 1949 and knowledge of this situation just doesn't exist. So, unless the U.S. does a ground burst and precisely the right location, by accident, I don't think the slide would get set off.
And air bursts probably wouldn't have any effect at all.

Anonymous said...

From Olefin

Bobby just read the new revised update - and the changes greatly improve it!! More details really flesh it out - and with both island groups involved it makes Operation Felix into a much more believable and realistic scenario. And turns it into a much more crucial turn point in ShatteredWorld - having that happen at the same time as the Allied defeat in Libya really brings Dewey to where he had no choice - either declare war or watch Britain be defeated.

Bravo!!! Encore encore!!

Anonymous said...


By the way - if this update doesnt satisfy the "we like lots of action and explosions in a new update" crowd - dont know what will!!

By the way Bobby - POW numbers and tank losses are just about what I would expect as you have described the past two updates - i.e. not a catastrophe like Tobruk was in OTL 1942 but also not minor losses either - the British clearly are still in the game but in no shape any time soon for any kind of offensive - i.e. more like the repulse they took at Rommel's hands in 1941 in OTL

The Alternate Historian NESer said...

Nice Update, but can you add it onto the Second World War page? :P

Golladay said...

Re: Cumbre Vieja

Well it depends how you do the eruption. It starts in a week from your date. The eruption will be 70 megaton equivalent and any plane in the air within 5 miles will be slammed into the ground. A four kilometer trench will form and the rock shelf will drop four meters. There will be a minor tsunami about 20 feet and a pyroclastic surge to the front of the island. Any ship in front of that won't like it though as long as they meet it head on, they won't sink.

It would hit everyone equally, but the Germans can afford the time and causalities, while the allies can not until they get far more resources.

A good way to write this is that the Allies drop the bomb the day before the volcano erupts on Tenerife, they need to expand that airfield they are staging from anyway. The Allied fleet forms up at night, using La Palma as a shield to hide them from view and move in at dawn. Around three a.m. the volcano pre detonates with a five kiloton blast causing a small quake, then it lets loose with its full force just as the allied fleet is starting to move catching them off guard some 40 minutes later.

Newspapers would say later on, "Man has shown it can make a big boom. Nature has just shown us it is not impressed and still holds the monopoly on big booms..."

However, American and British subs can make the Germans, Italians, and whatever Spanish troops that could be scraped up, subsist on less than what they would like "Dr. Evil"

Anonymous said...

Olefin here


Golladay is right about one thing Bobby - the La Palma volcano (Cumbre Vieja) is due to erupt staring June 24, 1949 and continue to July 30, 1949 - meaning your battle is going to get one heck of an interruption in a few weeks - the eruption included lava flows, earthquakes and a debris cloud that covered almost all the Canaries and into Free France - meaning any air operations, Allied or Axis, are going to have major disruptions.

1949 eruption

During the 1949 eruption, a two kilometer-long fracture opened and parts of the western half of the Cumbre Vieja ridge slipped several meters downwards towards the Atlantic Ocean. The fracture can quite easily be seen to this day. It is believed that this process was driven by the pressure caused by the rising magma heating and vaporizing water trapped within the structure of the island.

Anonymous said...

From Olefin

1949 eruption

On June 24th at 9am with a loud roar ash, fire and lava were thrown over Cumbre Vieja and the first crater opened - El Duraznero. On July 8th at 430am in the morning a large crack appeared in a plain known as Llano del Banco from which large quantities of lava flowed down to the sea. On July 13th the Duraznero crater exploded, hurling ash, burning stones and gases into the air. A new crater opened at 4pm in teh Hoyo Negro, producing a shower of ashes over Los Llanos de Aridane with a strong smell of sulphur. The eruption ceased on August 3rd.

planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/Outrigger/finalDocuments/Chapters/Volume1/Chapter3.pdf -

Anonymous said...

Have either of you even read the full study and examined the methods they used? The computer model was inheriently flawed with the common factors it used to graph the results including the nature of the fault and what type of rock it was. The model was intitally designed to predict underwater rock slides and the research team took it off the shelf and then failed to modify key constants in the program itself.

This basically slanted the results to thier unrealistic high end of the bell. They then took this failed model to the Spainish government in a attempt to do a design study for a Tsunami system like there will be in the Pacific. The Spainish government turned to a few local of the geologists, seismologists, and fluid dynamicsts and this group came to the conclusion that not only did the researchers take the upper limit of the scale of probability but that the "mega tsunami" theory was nothing more than a bungled research project that had not even taken into account the fact that real fault line is less the 5kms and not 40+kms long. Also the team failed to take into account that the most probable result is that a few less than 7.0 magnitude earthquakes will occur that will gradually rip the rock to shreds and throw smaller bits into the ocean instead of launching the needed 25% of the island into the ocean that in itself may not cause such a earthquake.

There are 0 members of NOAA who endorse this theory.

Anonymous said...

Olefin here

The tsunami theory is a valid theory - but it is still only a theory. However the June 24 - July 30, 1949 volcanic eruption is historical fact. So either way - nukes or not - that volcano is due to erupt in the next month - and when it does there will widespread radar, sonar and aircraft problems in that area - which is going to be bad news for all concerned.

For instance - debris and lava flows into the ocean will disrupt sonar performance in a large area. Airborne debris and ash will affect radar and damage aircraft engines and flight surfaces. And lava flows, gases and ash will disrupt operations on La Palma itself as well as nearby islands.

And those things will happen whether the US uses nukes or not.

Anonymous said...

Unless of course the Chaos Theory is correct and the several seismic changes due to different mass bombings of Earth's surface as well as nuke explosions have changed the conditions and the vulcano eruption is going to happen in other time

Anonymous said...

Olefin here - I highly doubt that 23k nukes going off thousands of miles away are going to relieve pressure on an active volcano

face facts - the volcano will erupt on time - no matter how alternate your history is it is still based on our world - so geological history should remain as it is.

However if someone drops a nuke directly into a dormant volcano (i.e. ground burst in the caldera) then all bets would be off - I dont think anyone would be able to predict what that would do.

Strategos' Risk said...

What does SBC stand for, again?

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

SBC = "Strategic Bombing Command"

Its a special arm of the U.S. Army Air Force put in charge of atomic bombers

Bobby Hardenbrook said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Olefin here

Bobby have two questions for you vis a vis the US military - in OTL the US Air Force was taken away from the Army and made its own independent organization. Will that happen here or has that decision been delayed until post war? Also have the armed forces been integrated yet per what Truman did in OTL post-WWII or are units still segregated as in WWII?

Just curious with your mention of the US Army Air Force.

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

The descision on whether to integrate the U.S. armed forces(whites and colored) has been put off until after the war.

Same for the U.S. Army Air Force. There are advocates for and against splitting off the Air Force into a seperate branch but the majority think the descision needs to wait until after the war.
However, as of early 1949 the SBC is essentially evolving into a seperate branch, rather like the Soviet model where Strategic rocket systems and whatnot were spunoff into a seperate organization.

Anonymous said...

Olefin here

Bobby one more edit you might want to make - and its minor - you did something similar I think after Pearl Harbor. Dewey would have had to ask for a declaration of War to the Congress and they would have had to approve it.

So more properly it should read Dewey asked for a declaration of war to Congress and then Congress voted for it - with the vote being whatever in favor.

Not really needed if dont want to play with the update again - just pointing it out for accuracy's sake.

Anonymous said...

Olefin again:

One last question - I dont see anything in the update about the US joining the AFD. They and Brazil declared war on the Axis and it appears that the US and Britain are going to do a joint operation - but did the US actually join the AFD as a member or is that still being considered and they are staying independent outside of the AFD?

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

Regarding U.S./Brazilian entry into the AFD, it happens early in the next segment.

Anonymous said...

If the Afghan rail line is as precious as it is said to be to the Soviets, wouldn't the Germans have attacked it already. All you need to do is move a few panzer divisions through Persia and onto Aghanistan with major air support and the Soviets are more or less done for. Bolivia and Venezuela seem like good members for the SAFB as well. I think the SAFB should start to be a little less quiet. They probably won't want to be at war with the U. S. or Brazil, but since those threats are there, they will probably want to get a little bigger and stronger to protect themselves. I can also see Indian/Pakistani rebels rallying to the Axis side for independence. Just a few thoughts for your next segment.

Anonymous said...

Olefin here

The Afghan railroad is too far away for the Germans to get there with any kind of regular army unit, armored or not. However some kind of either mass bombing raid, missile attack or large scale saboteur drop could be done in concert with their summer offensive to cut that line for days or weeks to come if they do it in the right places.

As for helping the Indian/Pakistani independence movement - that is actually very surprising to me that the Germans havent done that yet - considering the huge losses the Indians have taken here and the fact that Muslims, in general, see the Germans as an ally and the AFD as an oppressor.

Anonymous said...

Olefin here

anyone talked to Bobby lately? Havent seen hide nor hair of him since mid March.

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

I'm still here, kinda lost the momentum I had going there for awhile.
The next segment is actually quite close to being finished. Just need to flesh it out a bit and polish.

Anonymous said...

Olefin here

A new segment soon - now that is what I call a great post!

Bobby one question - should we continue to send you questions by PM on the discussion board? Or should we ask them here as part of the comments?

Bobby Hardenbrook said...

Either way should be fine.

Anonymous said...

So any idea Bobby when we will get a new update? Been a couple of weeks since you said it would be soon - and the board looks like it needs a shot in the arm to get going again - or lots of salvoes at point blank range between BCR's and BB's

from Olefin