Fantastic work once again, Bobby. Once again you have finished to produce a masterpiece that shocks the reader down to the core, yet chains him to the text. I can't wait to see what happens next!
one question, what do the Germans call the new nerve agent? VX is the OTL name, after all.
b) the Germans do have one major port that hasnt been nuked - that atomic attack was the one that was shot down in the attempt to nuke Bizerte which wss mentioned as a major Axis naval port - so that leaves them one unnuked port for supplies. And they would have at least one small port in Libya they can use too.
Oh one question with the map - is Kiev still resisting or has it surrendered? There is no blue circle around it that would suggest it is still active.
Otherwise one heck of an update - looks like the balloon has finally gone up for ShatteredWorld to get a lot more shattered!
I don't quite understand why the Brits are messing about using nukes on Iberia and the German ports. Why aren't they going for the jugular and hitting Berlin?
How does VX compare to sarin gas or mustard gas? Since VX and sarin are both nerve agents, they have similar effects on the body. But VX is about a hundred times more deadly than sarin when absorbed through the skin and about twice as deadly when inhaled. Moreover, sarin is volatile, evaporates at about the same rate as water, and is deadliest when inhaled, while VX is oil-based, extremely adhesive, and long lasting.
Mustard gas, a blister agent, is less deadly than both VX and sarin but can lead to more lasting health effects, such as cancer and birth defects
Olefin here - more from the net - Bobby you may want to rewrite your post - everything I am finding says that if it is true VX gas then simple rain wouldnt clean it up - in fact it would actually be even worse because the runoff would contaminate any water nearby and make it unusable for drinking
VX is a nerve agent involving organic phosphorous compounds and sulphur. It works essentially by penetrating the skin and disrupting the transmission of nerve impulses.
Following release of VX into the air, people can be exposed through skin contact, eye contact, or inhalation (breathing in the VX mist). Though VX does not mix with water as easily as other nerve agents do, it could be released into water. Following release of VX into water, people can be exposed by drinking contaminated water or getting contaminated water on their skin. Following contamination of food with VX, people can be exposed by eating the contaminated food. VX is primarily a liquid exposure hazard, but if it is heated to very high temperatures, it can turn into small amounts of vapor (gas). Other methods have been experimentaly tested to produce a VX gas or mist. A person’s clothing can release VX for about 30 minutes after contact with VX vapor, which can lead to exposure of other people. VX breaks down slowly in the body, meaning that repeated exposures to VX and/or other nerve agents can have a cumulative effect (build up in the body). Because VX vapor is heavier than air, it will sink to low-lying areas and create a greater exposure hazard there. VX gas is one of the most dangerous chemicals created by man. VX gas is an aerosoled chemical warfare agent derived from the oil-based VX. In the film "The Rock", it was that green liquid that the terrorists threatened San Francisco Bay with.
VX gas was developed in the Porton Down Chemical Weapons Research Centre, Wiltshire, England in 1952 and its devastating effects were tested. The British traded the technology of VX with the United States of America for information on thermonuclear weapons.
Its chemical formula is CH3CH20-P(O)(CH3)-SCH2CH2N(C3H7)2 and is normally in its liquid state despite its name. It has a low volatility; is odourless and is an excellent adhesive. A special form has been developed that is so adhesive that it is virtually impossible to remove from the surface that it is in contact with. This leads to strategic attacks on enemy bases or airfields so that the VX remains stuck to the area and has the potential to kill any one attempting to use the base or airfield.
The "V" of VX signifies it long persistence. So it is more dangerous and toxic than its cousins of the "G" variety like GA (Tabun) and GB (Sarin), which dissipate quickly and have only short-term effects. In the liquid form of VX, it is absorbed through the eyes or the skin of the victim. It takes an hour or two to take effect and its effects result in death. The gaseous form is more deadly than the liquid form and acts almost immediately on the victim. The effects are worst when it is inhaled and death is an end to the suffering.
“Persistent agents like VX work best in winter. VX, a liquid persistent nerve agent, lasts 16 weeks in winter, three weeks in summer but only 12 hours in the rain.
Inhaled nerve gas agents take effect within seconds” ( meaning anyone who inhaled the gas due to, for instance, the liquid being heated to a gas by a missile impact, would be dead within seconds)
thus Bobby the rain would get rid of it but it would have to be a sustained rain of at least 12 hours to do it - or a total of 12 hours of rain spread out - and the water would be contaminated with VX so any runoff into drinking water would kill anyone drinking it - or kill whatever was in the water (i.e. you can kiss goodbye fishing in the Thames or the sea off of the Thames for a few years)
also any food that was touched by the VX would be deadly - so every Victory Garden in Manchester and London would have to be plowed under and any uncanned food in those areas would have to be destroyed - meaning that the death toll may go much much higher over the coming days as the Brits eat and drink contaminated food and water
most likely by a week from now the 100,000 dead or injured are going to be more like 150-200,000 since the Brits would have no idea how deadly this stuff was or that it was this peristent
Olefin here - two questions I asked Bobby got answered so will post them here as well as on the other board
1)Second thing - how big were the casualties in Kiel - you didnt mention them?
Probably ~30,000 or so. The bomb was a direct hit over the harbor - so it doesn't quite spark off a firestorm that guts the entire city.
Bobby
2)Bobby how many conventional bombers were lost on the raids – it mentions that German fighters tore into the fighters and bombers – what kind of losses did the Allies take among the prop fighters and the regular bombers?
Heavy losses. Probably as many as 80 downed, and maybe another 40 damaged. So, heavy but not totally catastrophic. A lot of allied escort fighters would have been downed as well, dozens. And a couple dozen German fighters downed to.
I think at this point it will about the late 1970's before the world can fully recover from the physical damage from this war. Maybe not. If any of those biologicals mutate into a stronger strain the world may just be finished anyway.
Hey I'm a new reader to the shattered world series and I just want to say that it is great very insightful and I was wondering shouldn't the germans be close to developing a nuclear bomb but anyway love your work
Dude the guy two comments above me posted his comment at 5:39 in the morning?!?WTF but dude I can't wait to read your next segment! I am literally hooked on shattered world I am so anxious for what will happen to the soviet union and I think that Germany needs a new leader(Hitler dies of illness) and that he should be replaced with a more rational leader like albert speer or manstein. But whatever it's just me thinking out loud. Keep up the good work!
However in the meantime I have thought. A question has been raised if pilots are willing to risk being shot down by Luftwaffe in order to atom bomb German citites. I think USA would have no problems with finding those pilots. In your timeline Jews, Poles in Europe were almost totally exterminated by Germany. In USA they were milions of Jews and Poles at the time of WW2(IIRC 5-6 milion Poles)-so I wouldn't be surprised if Air Force volunteers for those missions come from Jewish and Polish people wishing to avenge their nations.
It's been almost two months and everyday I check and see if a new segment is posted since the timeline and war is in a pivotal point and I know that are you trying to make it as plausible as possible and I myself have actually been contemplating my own scenarios. But anyway just wondering when the next update will be posted. God Bless!
Why don't the Americans just drop atomic bombs on Germany, or forward a few of them to the Russian front? Seems like a combination of the two would almost certainly cost Germany the war.
De Gaulle dropped out because he was losing and Britain wasn't giving him adequate backing. Pure Real Politik decision. He'd have very likely lost northwest Africa if he hadn't cut the deal.
He bought himself time. Part of his calculation was that he figured the Americans would eventually give him aid - and that is about the bear fruit in spades.
Regarding the U.S. nuking Germany - did you read Segment 55.3? They just hit northwest Germany with multiple atomic attacks. Kiel, Bremen, etc.
As for the U.S. using atomic bombs on the Eastern Front - it'd be a bit impractical. German air defenses in central Europe are very very strong and there is very little tactical coordination between the western allies and the Soviets.
Also, the U.S. doesn't have an infinite number of bombs. Their stockpile numbers in the dozens, not the hundreds - and they have to cover three fronts - Iberia-Nortwest Africa / Germany proper / Japan in the Pacific.
All right, I see what you mean. I just read 55.1-3,and that answers both of my questions. By the way, I know you probably get this a lot, but it really is an outstanding timeline. Particularly interesting is how WW2 begins-rather than ends- in 1945. It makes us realize how much more severe the war's material and human price could have been.
Yep, the later start date gives everyone better technology - meaning more effective weapons and firepower meaning more mayhem.
My main original intent was to explore what a much worse world war two might have looked like - with all the conventional hell we saw in OTL's WW2 but also chem and nuclear and some more modern weaponry, etc.
48 comments:
Oh "bleep"
Some pics aren't work though Bobby.
Also now is a good time for Von Braun to launch his satellite and if he can wing it, put a man in space.
Anyone else having trouble seeing the pictures? They seem fine on my end
They seem fine to me (5 pics).
BTW, great update!
WOW, great update! -matias
Okay, I see the pics now.
B-34s are now B-36s?
B-34s are now B-36s?
GAH! My poor Germany!
REVENGE! REVENGE! REVENGE!
Kill them all i say, KILL THEM ALL!
Nice update, Bobby! Damn so many dead. It's time for the german bomb, so this madness stops!
NOOOOOOO MY LOVELY HAMBURG!
GREAT update.
Ladies and gentlemen...this is the end...
Fantastic work once again, Bobby. Once again you have finished to produce a masterpiece that shocks the reader down to the core, yet chains him to the text. I can't wait to see what happens next!
one question, what do the Germans call the new nerve agent? VX is the OTL name, after all.
Olefin here
Bobby just a couple of little edits you need
a) B-34's instead of B-36's
b) the Germans do have one major port that hasnt been nuked - that atomic attack was the one that was shot down in the attempt to nuke Bizerte which wss mentioned as a major Axis naval port - so that leaves them one unnuked port for supplies. And they would have at least one small port in Libya they can use too.
Oh one question with the map - is Kiev still resisting or has it surrendered? There is no blue circle around it that would suggest it is still active.
Otherwise one heck of an update - looks like the balloon has finally gone up for ShatteredWorld to get a lot more shattered!
oops, fixed the B-36/B-34 thing ;)
simply great :)
Very good update, Bobby! :)
AWESOME!!!! Great work Bobby!!!
SWFCane
I don't quite understand why the Brits are messing about using nukes on Iberia and the German ports. Why aren't they going for the jugular and hitting Berlin?
Olefin here
map needs to be updated to show Kiev under siege
Olefin here - from the net
How does VX compare to sarin gas or mustard gas?
Since VX and sarin are both nerve agents, they have similar effects on the body. But VX is about a hundred times more deadly than sarin when absorbed through the skin and about twice as deadly when inhaled. Moreover, sarin is volatile, evaporates at about the same rate as water, and is deadliest when inhaled, while VX is oil-based, extremely adhesive, and long lasting.
Mustard gas, a blister agent, is less deadly than both VX and sarin but can lead to more lasting health effects, such as cancer and birth defects
Olefin here - more from the net - Bobby you may want to rewrite your post - everything I am finding says that if it is true VX gas then simple rain wouldnt clean it up - in fact it would actually be even worse because the runoff would contaminate any water nearby and make it unusable for drinking
VX is a nerve agent involving organic phosphorous compounds and sulphur. It works essentially by penetrating the skin and disrupting the transmission of nerve impulses.
Following release of VX into the air, people can be exposed through skin contact, eye contact, or inhalation (breathing in the VX mist).
Though VX does not mix with water as easily as other nerve agents do, it could be released into water. Following release of VX into water, people can be exposed by drinking contaminated water or getting contaminated water on their skin.
Following contamination of food with VX, people can be exposed by eating the contaminated food.
VX is primarily a liquid exposure hazard, but if it is heated to very high temperatures, it can turn into small amounts of vapor (gas). Other methods have been experimentaly tested to produce a VX gas or mist.
A person’s clothing can release VX for about 30 minutes after contact with VX vapor, which can lead to exposure of other people.
VX breaks down slowly in the body, meaning that repeated exposures to VX and/or other nerve agents can have a cumulative effect (build up in the body).
Because VX vapor is heavier than air, it will sink to low-lying areas and create a greater exposure hazard there.
VX gas is one of the most dangerous chemicals created by man.
VX gas is an aerosoled chemical warfare agent derived from the oil-based VX. In the film "The Rock", it was that green liquid that the terrorists threatened San Francisco Bay with.
VX gas was developed in the Porton Down Chemical Weapons Research Centre, Wiltshire, England in 1952 and its devastating effects were tested. The British traded the technology of VX with the United States of America for information on thermonuclear weapons.
Its chemical formula is CH3CH20-P(O)(CH3)-SCH2CH2N(C3H7)2 and is normally in its liquid state despite its name. It has a low volatility; is odourless and is an excellent adhesive. A special form has been developed that is so adhesive that it is virtually impossible to remove from the surface that it is in contact with. This leads to strategic attacks on enemy bases or airfields so that the VX remains stuck to the area and has the potential to kill any one attempting to use the base or airfield.
The "V" of VX signifies it long persistence. So it is more dangerous and toxic than its cousins of the "G" variety like GA (Tabun) and GB (Sarin), which dissipate quickly and have only short-term effects. In the liquid form of VX, it is absorbed through the eyes or the skin of the victim. It takes an hour or two to take effect and its effects result in death. The gaseous form is more deadly than the liquid form and acts almost immediately on the victim. The effects are worst when it is inhaled and death is an end to the suffering.
Olefin here again - so you know there is where I got the information
http://thewednesdayreport.com/twr/vx.htm
Olefin here
One last comment from a book I found online
How to Make War
By James F. Dunnigan
“Persistent agents like VX work best in winter. VX, a liquid persistent nerve agent, lasts 16 weeks in winter, three weeks in summer but only 12 hours in the rain.
Inhaled nerve gas agents take effect within seconds” ( meaning anyone who inhaled the gas due to, for instance, the liquid being heated to a gas by a missile impact, would be dead within seconds)
thus Bobby the rain would get rid of it but it would have to be a sustained rain of at least 12 hours to do it - or a total of 12 hours of rain spread out - and the water would be contaminated with VX so any runoff into drinking water would kill anyone drinking it - or kill whatever was in the water (i.e. you can kiss goodbye fishing in the Thames or the sea off of the Thames for a few years)
also any food that was touched by the VX would be deadly - so every Victory Garden in Manchester and London would have to be plowed under and any uncanned food in those areas would have to be destroyed - meaning that the death toll may go much much higher over the coming days as the Brits eat and drink contaminated food and water
most likely by a week from now the 100,000 dead or injured are going to be more like 150-200,000 since the Brits would have no idea how deadly this stuff was or that it was this peristent
Hoping to see nuked Berlin soon ! :)
Olefin here - two questions I asked Bobby got answered so will post them here as well as on the other board
1)Second thing - how big were the casualties in Kiel - you didnt mention them?
Probably ~30,000 or so. The bomb was a direct hit over the harbor - so it doesn't quite spark off a firestorm that guts the entire city.
Bobby
2)Bobby how many conventional bombers were lost on the raids – it mentions that German fighters tore into the fighters and bombers – what kind of losses did the Allies take among the prop fighters and the regular bombers?
Heavy losses. Probably as many as 80 downed, and maybe another 40 damaged. So, heavy but not totally catastrophic. A lot of allied escort fighters would have been downed as well, dozens. And a couple dozen German fighters downed to.
Bobby
The Google Docs links appear to be broken.
I really wanted to find out what happened. :)
Anyone having trouble with the google link for segment 55.3?
I just checked it and it should be working.
I got thru to it later - corporate firewall must have blocked it. :)
When did Beria become Stalin? Is this his way to restore confidence in the state?
Wow.
Harsh.
I think at this point it will about the late 1970's before the world can fully recover from the physical damage from this war. Maybe not. If any of those biologicals mutate into a stronger strain the world may just be finished anyway.
Been a month, where's the next masterpiece of yours?
Yes, i know, dont push the genius, but peleaaaaase :D
im also finding myself checking in several times daily, in anticipation. especially now that the timeline is more interesting than ever!
-matias
Its coming along. Shouldn't be too much longer.
great suff,
I've just finished reading two alternative-history books and I must say that you're writting style has got me hooked... can't wait for next update
Hey I'm a new reader to the shattered world series and I just want to say that it is great very insightful and I was wondering shouldn't the germans be close to developing a nuclear bomb but anyway love your work
Dude the guy two comments above me posted his comment at 5:39 in the morning?!?WTF but dude I can't wait to read your next segment! I am literally hooked on shattered world I am so anxious for what will happen to the soviet union and I think that Germany needs a new leader(Hitler dies of illness) and that he should be replaced with a more rational leader like albert speer or manstein. But whatever it's just me thinking out loud. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the positive comments! Hearing stuff like that keeps me going at this.
Seems like we're getting a few more new readers lately.
I am trying to register on your discussion board.
However in the meantime I have thought.
A question has been raised if pilots are willing to risk being shot down by Luftwaffe in order to atom bomb German citites.
I think USA would have no problems with finding those pilots.
In your timeline Jews, Poles in Europe were almost totally exterminated by Germany.
In USA they were milions of Jews and Poles at the time of WW2(IIRC 5-6 milion Poles)-so I wouldn't be surprised if Air Force volunteers for those missions come from Jewish and Polish people wishing to avenge their nations.
What name did you register under? I need to authorize you manually.
Hi Bobby, I registered for a name "Kristos".
Ok Kristos, go ahead and try to post a message on the discussion board. Let me know if it still doesn't work.
It's been almost two months and everyday I check and see if a new segment is posted since the timeline and war is in a pivotal point and I know that are you trying to make it as plausible as possible and I myself have actually been contemplating my own scenarios. But anyway just wondering when the next update will be posted. God Bless!
and im stopping by several times daily. Hey Bobby, would it be a hustle for you to distribute a newsletter when updates come along?
regards, Sammy
You can subscribe to the main page's RSS feed and that will push new updates to you into whatever RSS reader you use
What's up with de Gaulle dropping out of the war ? It seems completely out of character, woudn't you agree?
Why don't the Americans just drop atomic bombs on Germany, or forward a few of them to the Russian front? Seems like a combination of the two would almost certainly cost Germany the war.
De Gaulle dropped out because he was losing and Britain wasn't giving him adequate backing. Pure Real Politik decision. He'd have very likely lost northwest Africa if he hadn't cut the deal.
He bought himself time. Part of his calculation was that he figured the Americans would eventually give him aid - and that is about the bear fruit in spades.
Regarding the U.S. nuking Germany - did you read Segment 55.3? They just hit northwest Germany with multiple atomic attacks. Kiel, Bremen, etc.
As for the U.S. using atomic bombs on the Eastern Front - it'd be a bit impractical. German air defenses in central Europe are very very strong and there is very little tactical coordination between the western allies and the Soviets.
Also, the U.S. doesn't have an infinite number of bombs. Their stockpile numbers in the dozens, not the hundreds - and they have to cover three fronts - Iberia-Nortwest Africa / Germany proper / Japan in the Pacific.
All right, I see what you mean. I just read 55.1-3,and that answers both of my questions.
By the way, I know you probably get this a lot, but it really is an outstanding timeline. Particularly interesting is how WW2 begins-rather than ends- in 1945. It makes us realize how much more severe the war's material and human price could have been.
Yep, the later start date gives everyone better technology - meaning more effective weapons and firepower meaning more mayhem.
My main original intent was to explore what a much worse world war two might have looked like - with all the conventional hell we saw in OTL's WW2 but also chem and nuclear and some more modern weaponry, etc.
Post a Comment